Where did all the Oldsmobile buyers go?

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The Road Ahead

Where did all the Oldsmobile buyers go?
THE ROAD AHEAD/MICHELLE KREBS

May 10, 2004

Two momentous – and seemingly unrelated events – occurred in a single recent week: South Korean automaker, Hyundai, skyrocketed from near the bottom to near the top of the J.D. Power and Associates’ quality charts; and General Motors’ Oldsmobile Division produced its last vehicle.

Hyundai, in the recently released J. D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which asks more than 51,000 Americans about quality problems they’ve experienced during the first three months of owning their new vehicle, leapfrogged American and European manufacturers and soared to the lofty ranks of Honda and Toyota.

Among auto manufacturers, Hyundai Motor America tied American Honda in problems -- 102 problems per 100 vehicles -- just below No. 1 ranked Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A., with 101 problems. (Only last year, Hyundai was near the bottom with 143 problems.) In terms of brands, Hyundai ranked seventh behind luxury makers Lexus, Cadillac, Jaguar and then Honda, Buick and Mercury, putting it also ahead of Toyota and Infiniti.

"A decade ago, as Korean manufacturers struggled with a universally poor reputation for vehicle quality, no one would have predicted they could not only keep pace, but actually pass the domestics and other imports in terms of initial quality," said Joe Ivers, J. D. Power partner and executive director of quality/customer satisfaction.

The same week that the J. D. Power results were announced, a dark red Oldsmobile Alero rolled down the assembly line at a GM plant, marking the end of America’s oldest and the world’s second oldest automotive brand. The 35,229,218th Oldsmobile built since Ransom E. Olds established his company in 1897 goes on display in the Oldsmobile museum in Lansing, Michigan.

GM had announced in December 2000 that the Oldsmobile brand would be eliminated over the following few years. GM said that despite major investments, Oldsmobile remained unprofitable, and its sales continued to erode. Besides, GM executives said, Oldsmobile buyers could easily move to other GM brands, most likely Buick. But that didn’t happen.

And that’s where the Oldsmobile and Hyundai stories intersect.

J. D. Power analyzed where Oldsmobile buyers were going via its Power Information Network (PIN), which gathers information regarding real customer buy-trade transactions from dealers.

Turns out, Oldsmobile buyers are turning to Hyundai Motor America by the largest and increasing percentages, not to GM.

“I never would have predicted that Olds buyers would increasingly be going to Hyundai,” said Tom Libby, a J. D. Power analyst and director of the PIN. “Intuitively, you don’t think of Hyundai with the same upscale image as Oldsmobile.”

But as with quality, the times they are a changing in terms of Hyundai’s image.

What’s even more telling is GM was 14th among all manufacturers that Olds owners turned to after learning their brand was going away. Right behind Hyundai, they went to Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi, DaimlerChrysler, Subaru and Suzuki (in which GM owns a stake in both), Volkswagen, BMW, Isuzu and Ford, respectively.

Indeed, in terms of brands, they turned to Chevrolet first and then to Hyundai. Cadillac and Pontiac ranked fifth and eighth, respectively. Yet, Olds buyers didn’t flock to GM brands in large enough numbers to boost GM in the corporate ranking.

Even more surprising, Buick ranked dead last as an alternative for Oldsmobile owners, in contrast to GM executives’ predictions.

Someone who is not surprised by any of the recent news events is George Glassman, who owned an Oldsmobile dealership in the Detroit suburb of Southfield, Michigan. GM spent untold billions on buying out dealers like Glassman or reassigning some to other GM dealerships.

Glassman had predicted a defection from GM with the departure of Oldsmobile, in part, because brand loyalty is non-existent, and value is the be all and end all. He’s also not surprised Olds buyers didn’t go to Buick. “Buick is still perceived as appealing to an older crowd,” Glassman said. “GM truly turned its back on hundreds of thousands of buyers who I think could have been loyal.”

In addition, with their Oldsmobile franchise gone, dealers like Glassman had to find other brands to sell; they went to Subaru, Kia, and, in Glassman’s case, Hyundai. In other words, mostly GM competitors.

“Hyundai acquired a number of good quality dealers who have become the best competitive force against GM. They’ve (GM) created a monster,” said Glassman. “I was a determined GM dealer, now I’m a very determined Hyundai dealer.”

And his customers have not found it difficult to transition from Oldsmobile to Hyundai,
 
Notice several things:

They did not go Buick like GM and so many people thought.
I knew this was going to happen. This is just the beginning of them realizing what they did.
GM was arrogant to think we Olds owners would go to another division.
SAAB is not replacing Oldsmobile as many people had stated either.
If I wanted a Buick, I would have bought a Park Avenue. I did not.
If anyone thinks La Crosse is equal to buying an Intrigue, you have a reality check coming.
I was wondering how long it would take.

If had to buy new, I would be forced to go to the Lincoln Mercury dealership. They are the only company that offer exactly what I have. The Mercury Grand Marquis and Lincoln Town Car. The Bonneville and Deville are the closest GM vehicles to what I have, and they come up short in a lot of areas.

I hate to break this to people too:

SAAB will not be big as you think. They have trouble selling in Europe!
Hummer needs to expand, because if it does not, it will have limited appeal.
Adding cars to Saturn still does change the fact they have no image, and they can just as easily be folded into Chevrolet. Equinox is a whole lot better than the VUE by a longshot. Sellling them as Amercian Opels does not help when you consider they sell Opels as Chevrolet in other countries.

I do not care who does not like I said this either. This is the truth. GM really made a big mistake, and they will pay a huge price for this mistake too.
 
Hyundai! sounds like a sneeze :angry:

My list after the Rora

Bonneville SSEi or GXP
Regal GS
Lincoln LS
Seville STS

That is all B)
 
I've been checking out the '05 Dodge Magnum. The styling reminds me of the old "Tri - 5" Chevy Nomads. Besides, when it comes to styling no other car manufacturer has turned out as many radical rides as Diamler-Chrysler.

Viper... Prowler...PT Cruiser....Magnum... and don't forget the Hemi RAM.

It's a crying shame that Oldsmobile couldn't have designed one last wagon like the Magnum... maybe something similar to the glass top Vista Cruisers.

Oh well.... maybe Saab will :P
 
I actually turned around more than once for the new hyunday solara...
I agree that GM made a big mistake.
 
I've got a personal anti-Japanese/Asian ban, but I have to confess that I like the look of the current Hyundai Tiburon. I personally wouldn't buy one but if I were young and looking in that market, I'd consider it over the Cavalier/Sunfire.

GM absolutely does not think far enough ahead.

On the list of recent GM cars that they finally got right and then killed:
- 94-96 Chevy Impala
- 93 Cadillac Allante w/ the Northstar system.
- V-6 Fiero GT (debate if you want, but the last model year was a good car)
- Camaro SS

And now they've killed of the entire Oldmobile brand. They will come to discover just what a mistake that was.
 
As I said elsewhere: I will buy my next car on
the basis of how closely it resembles the Aurora
that I own now. American, English, German,
Japanese, Swedish, whatever.


____________

GM!!! BRING BACK OLDS!!!



sigau.jpg
 
While my Buick views are not as harsh as 98's my Pontiac and Chevy views are. AND I cant even spell satchurin. No offence to the great Pontiac owners, but Im a Buick/Olds guy, not a Buick/Pontiac guy or a Olds/Pontiac, I like BUICKS AND OLDSMOIBILES and Olds got the shaft so Im bitter to all except Buick because they also recieved the shaft but at least GM remembered to pull it out. :rolleyes: or not ??? only time will tell.

I didnt read the first artical sorry , I dont know why I dont care what it says. I was thinking about this since a statement made about Pontiac and Cadillac sales being up. I personally know a few people that went STS or DeVille instead of Aurora or the lack of 98 or 88. Certainlly Buick had nothing with sex appeal , PA is nice but surely pricey for a potential 88 buyer. So Im saying one type of Olds buyer went to Cadallic which has been one dirrection as moving up anyhow. Also the Deville isnt a bad price, certainly not as high as the pricy STS. A handfull may have bought a Buick.

Then Im saying another type of Oldsmobile buyer went to GrandPrix, GrandAm or Bonneville. After all many Cadillac/Oldsmobile dealers picked up Pontiac to replace Olds, so if you walk in to see what they have, if you cant afford Caddy your going to Pontiac or even elsewheres. The owner of our LSS traded for a Caddy, sorry I forgot what model. My best friends father drove Regencys his whole life and went to STS's when he retired, I just drove past his house and Im pretty sure I saw the front of a Park Avenue in the garage, if I know him its an Ultra !

Thens theres people like me that will refuse to be pushed into other GM cars just because GM says so. We are used car people and will most likely always be so, I may get a G2 Aurora one day the wife still wants one. Honestly for me, our daughter will be in college in 4 more years, the LSS will be paid off in 2.5. The next car of my dreams right now is a Nissan 350Z ragtop :D . I want a real sports car again and we have enough 6 seaters to last a century.

There is a black, camel top/interior 04 Corvette drop top screaming at me everytime I pass the local Buick/GMC now gone Chevy II dealer. $55,000 is above me but I could pull it off and hey its a 6 stick :P . I believe its going to be a buyers market for 04 convertables soon , new body comming out and every Chevy lot I pass has 04 convertables sitting on it - - overstock . Really a used 350Z will be doable for me in 4 years and GM is putting me to sleep with there teasing nonsense and bias toward Pontiac and Chevy.

350zroadster16.jpg
 
Cars that appeal to me as Aurora replacements are the CTS-V, though it is quite a bit pricier. The CTS doesn't cut it for me. No V8, and enough more expensive for the same/less features that I can't imagine going from an Aurora to it. The Bonnie GXP just because it is mechanically similar to an Aurora, but the styling is not for me, and the interior is hideous. I would never buy a car with all red backlighting unless I sucked it up to own a Ferrari. The new STS is way too expensive, and the current Seville is way too boxy and bland on the exterior. A Corvette would appeal, and that's about it.
 
Doesn't it make you wonder who calls the shots at at GM? I know I could do a better job! Are you listening, GM? Why on earth are they in the habit of giving market segments away? I just don't understand their thinking.

MR
 
I was dealing with this on another Forum. This is what was said:

Did they survey rental firms? 50% of Olds in the past few years went to them.

A question for the "save Olds" people. Did you support the division by purchasing a brand new Olds when they needed sales?

I see a lot of post going "GM didnt market it right" and all, but what was needed was sales and not rental ones. More important was for GM to save Cadillac in the late 90's and Chevrolet now. If GM had 50% of the market like 1961, then they could support all the brands.

Sorry to see the brand go down, but it was leaking since 1987, and nothing seemed to work. :(

I then said:

I supported Olds. I would have bought a new Oldsmobile Ninety Eight. They did not have one. I wanted a six passenger car. They did not have one. It works both ways. I support Oldsmobile and always have. I support them in ways which I will not discuss here. They were not bleeding since 1987. Sales were still over 700,000 then. The engineers at Oldsmobile wanted to change Oldsmobile, and GM refused and would not give them any funding. They went directly to GM and asked for funding. They at GM(management) felt things were fine. They were not. It was not until the early 1990's they gave them the funding. It was bleeding then. It amazes me me when people want to attack Oldsmobile owners and loyalist and do not have all the facts. They want to put it off on us. As you you know... GM sent out a memo in 1992(I have it) saying they were not going to kill Oldsmobile, and it was here to stay period. THEY LIED.

Facts are facts, the management at GM at the time screwed things up. It was not just the marketing either. Do not blame the buyers. They abandoned them too. The facts are facts.. Aurora is a great car. It was a cheaper than Seville and better than anything Buick was building at the time. Oldsmobile was a threat. This is what happens when you have too many divisions competing for the GM dollar. Saturn should be shot and put out to pasture. THE END.

I make no apologizes for anything I have said.
 
I think the Aurura is still better than anything Buick has now..

Otherwise.. I'm not surprised that people jumped-off the GM bandwagon and left for foreign cars. There was something special about Oldsmobiles that no other affordable GM vehicle had. So it had to be Cadillac - and if that was too expensive - it was foreign - like Hyundai - who really know what they're doing...
 
Honestly I don't think there is much of anything I would drive now that Olds is Gone. My biggest problem w/ most cars is Chrome, IMO it makes a modern car look tacky. In fact this is my major turn-off for the new Malibu. It can be forgiven on the SAAB 9-3, but those are quite a bit out of my price range. The Saturn Curve looks interesting and I'd be more than happy to buy a Ion Redline if I could get one w/out one of the Seven tacky wings.
There's something I just can't stand about Pontiac's "Look at Me" styling, but I think I could drive a GTO if I could get a Holden Front end for it.

As the Auto industry sits now I doubt if I'll ever buy a new car.
 
In another 2 or 3 years I hope to keep my
Aurora as a collectible. My choices for my
driving around at that point are as follows:

1. Pontiac Bonneville GXP....first choice.
2. Cadillac DTS.
3. Audi A8.
4. Volkswagen Phaeton.

I have also heard that in about the 2006 model year,
the Buick LeSabre might get a DOHC V-8, so I'd be
looking at that also, if it ever materializes.


_______________

GM!!! BRING BACK OLDS!!!


sigau.jpg
 
To me it kind of felt like GM said we had too many companies under our name so lets let the Oldsmobile line fade away. Maybe I dont have a good memory but I cant remember in recent times of any new or exciting line that Olds was coming out with. If GM wants to sell cars then they need to throw something into a fading line that will spruce things up. What about an Olds Truck? Lincoln and Cadillac have their SUT which are doing decent last time I heard. Buick will always be alive until Tiger Woods stops doing commercials :D . I never have or never will like Chevy (Love Fords,so go figure). I read some people dont care for Pontiacs but I think thats telling GM something. All Pontiac vehicles (except for the Aztec and their mini van) have that sporty look to them. Remember when the ideal middle class business man would be in a BMW? The Bonneville and 4 door Grand Prix remind me of somone that is on the go all the time. Its a classy car but not overly pricey. Too many people drive around Caddilacs just because their friend has one or they seen it on a Rap music video, or it looks good on Dubz. I have always said, most ricers=kids, deliver pizza and immaturity.....domestic sedans=classy and "Im on my way to the top" type of look
 
Various view of mine -

The Bonneville got the Riviera/Aurora platform so it must be Pontiac Bonneville doesnt have any new exciting line coming out either :P

The Grand Prix/ Bonneville got the "new" Buick V6 and in the case of SSE and GTP got the L67 and that has done great things for GrandPrix especially, before that it was faultering with low power and reliability.

Buick had a 2 dr LeSabre and the Riviera which both were as sporty and as exciting as any Pontiac but miss handled and miss promoted. So they didnt sell good after a few years and not continuously upgrade so sales dropped off. The 2 dr LeSabre had to be pushed to the side because the "new" 2dr Lumina looked nearly identical and Dale Ernhart needed a Chevy to race so boom, by by LeSabre hello Z34.

Riviera 95 + was very pricy and very ritzy but the crowd that would be drawn to Riviera luxury and price would find its looks to aggressive for them, possibly an Aurora problem as well. I feel Aurora and Riviera both needed a more purpose built GT package and not just like the autobahn package either. A car for a different crowd, lowered, serious handling package and what usually goes with it. Great factory GFX and some form of diet. These GM's would have held their ground better against the import competition if they werent so fat. The standard for the luxury crowd was fine but I believe a real GT version would have drawn in more sucessful middle aged folks. Buick and Olds had always had the goods, I believe they were just lead by the blind or on a short leash, or both.

What this non Pontiac guy doesnt enjoy about Pontiac styling is the beek, it just drives me nuts, I never liked it in the 70's and so I guess I never will. Even the Firebird, I'd take a Camaro anyday but have no interest in a Firebird. Then with the deletion of Oldsmobile Im just resentfull, I know its wrong but it actually made me edgy about Pontiac. Dont think I feel Pontiac should have been canned either, I would not have liked that. See I not only lost Oldsmobile but I lost Riviera, two door Buicks and what I see when I look at Pontiac and Chevy is what they got by killing off these cars.

Dont tell me Oldsmobile didnt sell cars. Our streets are still littered with Cierras, 80's Delta 88's and Regencys, even some remaining W Supremes. Newer eighty eights and LSS's. Plenty of Intrigues and Alero's are common. G1 Auroras are still flying around. Even Bravadas but I never really look at SUV's but the Olds split grill always catches my eye. The only Olds thats a rare siteing is the G2 Aurora but when you announce the end shortly after releasing a new model you've sealed its fate.

I believe the Quad Four hurt Oldsmobile alot. It was an engine that needed to be built and has moved on but I know little about the newer version. I beleive that reliability problem put a implant in car owners heads. I also believe anyone having issues with this 3800 manifold gasket in all these Buick/Oldsmobiles has done some serious damage to both division. I think all the bashing of the 307 decades ago still has a implant stuck in some peoples heads. Hey Americans wanted their V8 and that was one of the few that cut the environmental mustard.

I could go on its so deep but so pointless, it just seems so many forget what went down the last 3 decades and Olds held its own and towed part of the corporate line throughout. Always remember when you say too many divisions and down sizing that that is not what happend with the killing of Olds but rather GM grew elsewhere so all that was and is just a crock.

On the positive side for you Pontiac guys - the G6 and Solstice are great looking cars and not too "beeky" . I still see a Nissan 350Z in my future.
 
I was not putting down Oldsmobile or Buick in any way, I was simply stating they needed to introduce a fresh vehicle that was untypical for them.

Pontiac Bonneville is a car line, not a company line. Look around 2006-7 for the new Bonne to come out. A lot of GM companies share the same Everything. The styling of the car is what sells, not the chasis or if it shares the same motor with another car. If you asked my generation if they would rather have a 2 door GrandPrix or a 2 door LeSabre, they would take the GP. IMO most Olds and Buicks are not sporty, but classy and sleepers, just like the Bonne and Crown Vic.

You mentioned you dont care for SUV's, but that is half of the population on the road today. History does not sell vehicles, as we have all seen with the Olds line going away. They made good cars but their audience was dwindling. With more teens having the ability to buy cars today compared to the 70's, they are going to buy sport cars and cars that save gas. GM screws up a lot to me, they screwed me over before with a transmission I had put in my car, they also screwed up the new GTO. I am sure your not to happy with that styling?

The Solstice is allright, didnt the G6 take over the GrandAm?
 
Yes. The G6 is supposed to replace the Grand Am in the Pontiac line up. I heard that there's supposed to be a hard-top convertible coupe version of the G-6 coming. That car would interest me, being a convertible lover and all.
 
There will not be a Bonneville after this current generation dies. Sorry. The Aurora and Intrigue are cars Oldsmobile were not producing. That was supposed to change Oldsmobile.
 
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