Secondary AIR

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505_pike

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Hello everyone it's been a while, have been busy with work, and this secondary air. When you run into problems let me know-I've got some hours in to it.

Just had a quick question. Has anyone ever used the HT Motorsports coil-over conversion? Suspension is getting a complete over haul and I've decided to get adjustable coil overs instead of drop springs, wondering if anyone has bought their diy coil-over kit, and if it's worth it.

A quick note on brakes...I did the 12" conversion with slotted and drilled rotors, and noticed a difference, nothing major but something was there. A few days ago I installed stainless steel brake lines on all corners, and that was more noticable than the rotor size increase. Eventually I'm gonna snag some GXP rotors and calipers for the rear and get 12" rotors back there (when I can afford rims).

The last time I was on I said I would post pics of all the different projects I've done, sorry for the delay, here in the next few days I'll start posting pictures.
 
Bumping this old thread cause I'm starting to get the Secondary Air Injection system Malfunction code. Got it on my way home tonight, pulled over, cleared the code, then my car wouldn't start. I had to disconnect the battery before it would start. Any suggestions?
 
@Trigue_2000_GLS, I did have cranking issues, along with the P0410 code, but it turned out the Crank Pos. sensor was bad as well. I have been told by a couple people that when an emissions related code turns the Check engine light on, it tells the ECM to stop running test until that specific issue is resolved, although I know this is incorrect (at least with my 2002) becuase I had 3 codes when my car was scanned right after I bought it, one of which was emission related.

Needless to say, I have managed to have no CEL for a Max of 600 miles, then I hear my pump kick on, and off for really short (1-3 seconds) while I'm driving (vehicle at normal operating temp) and then a minute or two later CEL is on.
I have familiarized myself with every component related to Secondary AIR, and have spent numerous hours working on it, and researching. Once something goes wrong it seems even GM technicians can't resolve the problem first try.

Either way I will gather up all the web sites I've found to be useful, and try to build an article so hopefully one of us can defeat this P0410.
 
Strange that it would cause a no start condition, it's just an emissions code. My understanding of the system is that it consists of:

1) Air pump
2) Plumbing
3) 2 vacuum actuated check valves
4) A relay to open the check valves
5) The upstream o2 sensor to give levels on startup

If the system can't complete its cycle at startup, it comes on again while driving after a certain period of time. This is when I would always get my light. The pump was blowing fine (felt like a jet engine when the hoses were disconnected) and there was no blockage in the plumbing. The relay tested good with a 9v battery, but when I pulled vacuum on the check valves, the driver side wouldn't hold. Replaced the check valve ($90 for the stupid thing), cleared the code, and have been code-free for 3,000 miles. Wonder which part will go next? :)
 
christauph said:
Strange that it would cause a no start condition, it's just an emissions code. My understanding of the system is that it consists of:

1) Air pump
2) Plumbing
3) 2 vacuum actuated check valves
4) A relay to open the check valves
5) The upstream o2 sensor to give levels on startup

If the system can't complete its cycle at startup, it comes on again while driving after a certain period of time. This is when I would always get my light. The pump was blowing fine (felt like a jet engine when the hoses were disconnected) and there was no blockage in the plumbing. The relay tested good with a 9v battery, but when I pulled vacuum on the check valves, the driver side wouldn't hold. Replaced the check valve ($90 for the stupid thing), cleared the code, and have been code-free for 3,000 miles. Wonder which part will go next? :)
Click to expand...

I'll also add that when I turned the key to start it, nothing happened. I got a click from the dash but that was it. No starter, no cranking, no nothing. Leaving it on "Run" for 5 seconds, you'd also see the "Service Vehicle Soon" light come on.
 
@christauph, I have replaced my upstream (pre-cat) o2 in hopes that maybe it had gone bad, but on RockAuto they list an o2 that is a bit more than the up/downstream o2's. I have looked all up and down my exhaust and have only found the 2 mentioned previously. Do you happen to know of any others...?

I have also taken the actuators off each of the exhaust manifolds and where the vacum line from the solenoid meets the actuator, were completely clogged with carbon build up. Cleaned them out with carb-cleaner and when I put them back in there was a noticable difference in the sound the pump made when I would first start it.
Replaced the vacuum solenoid because the front actuator was making a flapping sound when the pump was running so I figured it wasn't building enough vacuum to hold the actuator open during the pump cycle.
Checked the AIR pump also (was actually my starting point) to make sure it was pushing air, which it was (quite a bit actually).
My next step is taking the vacuum lines off, and figuring a way out to clean them, or just replacing the. If that doesn't fix it for good, I think I may just give up until I can buy the GM tech-II because apparently it can tell the Secondary AIR to kick on, then there's vacuum, and pressure that needs to be measured.
 
Funny thing about Intrigues is how they age at the same rate and we seem to all get similar problems at the same time. My service engine light came on last night and I thought to myself "The cam and crank sensors are fairly new, alternator has maybe 10K miles on it, the car runs good, temperature is normal - so I bet it's caused by the secondary air getting out of spec". Drove it 130 miles without any problems. I've seen various comments on the internet from people who just ignore the service light when its caused by secondary air glitches.

My car just passed inspection a few weeks ago, I'll have the code checked on my next oil change.
 
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I don't think there are any other sensors. Did you use a mityvac or other hand vacuum pump to test the actuators? It's a fairly simple go/no go on holding vacuum. The vacuum lines are simple to replace and would be my next step if the actuators are both holding vacuum. One runs to the throttle body to get the vacuum, the other runs down the intake manifold and splits at a tee to provide vacuum to both actuators. You should be able to replace the whole shebang with soft line from any auto parts store.
 
@christauph-I haven't even thought about that, thanks for putting the thought in my head, gonna try to get a mityvac tonight. I'm thinking that's exactly what it is, I'll let everyone know once I figure something out. Thanks again!
 
No problem. I'll be dollars to donuts that you have a bad diaphragm in one of the actuators, especially since you said you could hear a flapping sound when the pump is running.
 
@christauph-A dollar is worth a donut? lol jk, but only kinda (american currency is screwed thanks to the FEDERAL RESERVE A.K.A private banking institution, and CHINA taking over our buying market)

Mityvac had to be ordered online. My local dealer said we can special order it, $85+tax, and special order fee, tried to get me to buy CHINA's POS, last once then done pile of crap, so I found Mityvac online and it's being shipped as I write this.

On another note, TO ANYONE WHO READS THIS, PLEASE MAKE A CONSCIENCE EFFORT TO BUY AMERICAN, OR CANADIAN MADE PARTS...F_{< CHINA AND THEIR PILES OF $[]+!!!!
 
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So I got the light to come on again (just to be sure I'm sane). Gonna fiddle around and check out my pump and etc parts after work tonight.
 
Tell us how you really feel pike... lol

I've been fighting this same issue for... well since I bought the car. Now emissions are over due, my registration was pulled by the county, and now my tags are expired. And to top it all of, the wife is driving my Grand Prix! Problem is, you have to drive the damn thing until the pcm resets. I've made it almost 50 miles so far, so we'll see what they say tonight. My guess is they will tell me the pcm is not ready yet and they can't test again. I am still trying to figure out what this system is even good for??? Runs the pump for 50 seconds on a cold start? what does that have to do with emissions? Really???
 
lol. Well I had a China made tool screw up something I was working on and that sent me over the edge. I'm throwing away all the tools I have that say made in China.
 
Emissions standards were one of the reasons that GM stopped development on the LX5. If I recall, the 1999 Intrigues did not have secondary air. When the secondary air was added in Y2000, people started complaining about the current draw for the pump causing "headlight flicker". It was a headache for all involved.

It's probably much easier to own an Intrigue in a rural area without emissions tests, as these cars get really old and the "service engine" light keeps coming back. Glad I just squeaked by a few weeks ago.
 
Triguie_2000_GLS said:
I'm tempted to just get the PCM reprogrammed to forget I have a secondary air pump. I've heard of others doing that.
Click to expand...

When you find out how to do that please let the rest of us know. I have a dhp bin file for a 2001 intrigue, but when I loaded it on the car, the car wouldn't start so I had to go back to the stock pcm.
 
Triguie_2000_GLS said:
I'm tempted to just get the PCM reprogrammed to forget I have a secondary air pump. I've heard of others doing that.
Click to expand...

I looked into this, and it seems that while the CEL and fault codes will go away, the readiness monitor will not. IE, if you live in a state that hooks up to your OBDII and checks for readiness, you won't pass. I decided it was easier just to fix it.
 
505_pike said:
@christauph-A dollar is worth a donut? lol jk, but only kinda (american currency is screwed thanks to the FEDERAL RESERVE A.K.A private banking institution, and CHINA taking over our buying market)

Mityvac had to be ordered online. My local dealer said we can special order it, $85+tax, and special order fee, tried to get me to buy CHINA's POS, last once then done pile of crap, so I found Mityvac online and it's being shipped as I write this.

On another note, TO ANYONE WHO READS THIS, PLEASE MAKE A CONSCIENCE EFFORT TO BUY AMERICAN, OR CANADIAN MADE PARTS...F_{< CHINA AND THEIR PILES OF $[]+!!!!
Click to expand...

Whoa there pike, settle down man! For parts and most tools I avoid Chinese stuff as much as I can, but let's be realistic about why most of it sucks. Chinese manufacturers can make something as crappy or as good as the foreign company paying for it is willing to pay. Just look at Apple and all the higher end computer companies. Most companies go to China for manufacturing to get the cheapest quality product that will give them the largest possible profit margin. I've gotten plenty of decent hand tools from harbor freight that were made in China, but when it came time to tighten the head bolts on my wife's benz, you bet I bought a set of SK sockets!

Back on topic, my local O'reilley's had the mityvac in stock for $35-$40.
 
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